Presentation by Mr. Lyle Morrisseau and Mr. Gilbert Abraham, Sagkeeng First Nation

MR. MORRISSEAU: Good afternoon once again to the Panel and to the people. Welcome to Nishnawbe territory.

I just wanted to introduce you at this time to Gilbert Abraham, who is an elder in our community. We have asked him to come for this today.

Do you want to just introduce yourself?

MR. EMBERLEY: Please pull the microphone closer when you speak.

MR. G. ABRAHAM: I don't know if I should because I have a loud voice. (Laughter)

Yes. I practise... Of course, he just mentioned my name, Gilbert Abraham from Fort Alexander, Sagkeeng First Nation.

I do a bit of work out there. I interpret for this group here, that is here today, and I am sitting here along with Lyle to give him a little support. I know, I have been in this, in these. I am no stranger to you people. I have met you quite a few years now. I feel comfortable to see you gathered this way because I am a person who mingles.

I will leave it now to Lyle.

MR. MORRISSEAU: My name is Kah Kimi Watha Pimi Watha. It means Day Walker. My name is Lyle Morrisseau, Sagkeeng.

I am a descendant of people that have occupied this land since the beginning of time where in which time we cared for the water, the land and the air that we breathe.

Recently, when this threat to nuclear waste had come upon us, we too must respond in terms of the original landowners. We do not have the arrogance or the audacity to affiliate ourselves with the concept that claims from sea to sea that applies blanket policies, and I am talking about the country called Canada.

As Nishnawbe, we have given territory from the Creator within around the Great Lakes region. At that time, we developed our language and a culture and a way of life that respects all life.

For us today, we sit here in front of you today and we also want to condemn the country called Canada for its affiliation with this idea, of creating waste, knowing we created the waste without any means of disposal or thought of.

I think it's a clear reflex of the country and the failure of your institutions as a country. And as occupants of this land, the very short period of time, you have developed and you have used medicine that has destroyed and has the ability and the capability of destroying so many people.

So today, I sit here not only as an "anti" as I have been described, because I have several aunties and uncles and brothers and sisters, but I appeal to the Panel because of our nation and our territory which is being violated.

Under the provisions of Treaty No. 1, you cannot go longer or deeper than the depth of a ploughshare. That was agreed by your ancestors and by my ancestors.

We hold those treaties sacred because they were in agreement as a people for peace and for friendship, not for lying, stealing or cheating or ripping off your future generations.

But rather, we asked that you look at this concept that you are developing and neutralize the medicine that you have taken from the earth. Your inability to neutralize it and to bury a live material, medicine threatens all of us, and we want to recommend that you not get rid of AECL, but AECL has a role and a responsibility to look at those ways of trying to neutralize the medicine that it has taken, and ask us for direction on those areas because we have not dabbled in the area of taking medicines from the earth that we do not know how to handle, and I am particularly talking about uranium.

I think we have seen the effects that uranium has, not only on people of this country, but people from other lands that you have dropped your bombs on.

The ability for itself as AECL has a challenging tasks above them, tasks and challenges in front of them.

It is not to continue to manipulate and to distort the deception of the truth which is what to do with this medicine, but it has to continue to ask for a moratorium on all development of nuclear materials, and to continue to look towards the indigenous peoples of the world within them who have cared to the water and the land and the air that we breathe.

So when you talk about concepts such as Canada, I ask you what a Canadian means. I do not expect that a Canadian means that get yourself into a desperate situation in which you're handling something you cannot even know what to do with it.

I expect Canadians to be friends and to be able to look for peace; not a piece of the action, but for real, genuine peace worldwide.

And as an indigenous sovereign person, we will assert that, and we will claim that this activity, this threat of burying nuclear waste is again another violation of Treaty No. 1 which was signed in Lower Fort Garry of 1871 where in which it said, and I will repeat:

The violations of using any -- of burying anything below a ploughshare is in violation of Treaty No. 1.

And I ask you to look into that and to ask you not to subject my people to concentration camps, not to subject them to poverty and to isolation and neglect.

But this country of Canada has failed us miserably, and I do not say that we want anything from you that you cannot give. We do not ask for our independence because we already have it. We do not ask for our autonomy as a people, for we already have it. We do not ask for our lands, for we already have it.

This building may be on our land, but the land is still ours. It never was given up. So I ask that the AECL, yes, you do have a role to play. And AECL Panel, you do have a role to play, as well; to look at the efforts in terms of the way the world is moving, not to hold desperate medicines in your hand and to figure out what to do with it after the fact.

And I asked Gilbert to be with me today because, as an elder, we have our elders who have acknowledged the life that has gone on before them. And with that, we carry that message forward to the future generations. I say meegwetch.

---[Applause]

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Morrisseau and also Mr. Abraham.

Are there any questions which any Member of the Panel wishes to put to Mr. Morrisseau?

MS. JAMIESON: I have one.

THE CHAIRMAN: Mary Jamieson.

MS. JAMIESON: Thanks.

Meegwetch, Lyle. I was just wondering if you would want to comment. There is a treaty, and the name escapes me at the moment, that prohibits any country from burying nuclear waste in the ocean.

I wonder if you feel that that treaty is as important -- or your treaty, Treaty No. 1 that refers to plough depth is at least as important as the one that references the sea?

MR. MORRISSEAU: I believe that treaty itself is as important to our treaty. And as a treaty, we have -- it has come in friendship and peace, not in ability of manipulating people and put deception within the minds of the people to -- with their alternative means.

We look at the treaty as peace and friendship, not as a -- and, yes, I do agree with you that this treaty itself as a treaty amongst people is a humanitarian act and a willingness to coexist.

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

Any question from the proponent? Are there any questions from members of the audience who would like to put to Mr. Morrisseau? If not -- oh, sorry. Yes, two. Right. One from Microphone No. 2, the young lady at the back, and then after that, Microphone No. 1.

MS. BERNARD: You speak about respect of our planet and Mother Earth.

Do you feel because of already the disrespect that has already taken place of the earth's environment, such as our air, water, land, plants and animals, don't you feel that that has been a long time suffering already?

MR. MORRISSEAU: I believe not only is it long overdue in terms of people realizing the problems of it, but also there are people, segments of people in society that have made contributions in terms of the intact land that was here before.

I think what we have seen on Winnipeg River with the Pinawa and with the dams that we have been infected by. In the wake of your arrival, we have seven dams along the Winnipeg River.

Yes, there has been some incredible damage, but as a people, we always have hope and we continue to assert that hope to all of you, that there are means and ways of dealing with these issues and problems. And, yes, we do want to contribute to the solution of these problems.

And in that contribution, if you do not look at us as something that has been dealt with in such a violent way as they have dealt with my people in the past, but rather look at as a valuable contribution to the efforts of having solutions to these major problems that we face today, such as the wastes and the excessive wastes that this country is now accepting.

MS. BERNARD: Thank you.

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. A question from Microphone No. 1.

MR. EMBERLEY: Kenneth Emberley, sir.

I have much sympathy with your point of view. There has been rising resistance to the whole nuclear business because there was such an aggressiveness on the part of the technologists to open up the technology for war, and it is only because of the war business that we have the nuclear manufacturing business of electricity.

The attack on the land is a thing that disturbs me most of all. If I understand your philosophy, the aboriginal people, like many white farmers, are so attached to the land that the injury to the land is an attack on your soul and your fundamental peace of mind.

Is that a correct understanding and is that part of the reason why there are so many people objecting to the inappropriateness of so much of the technology and the organizations that have been developed in connection with it?

MR. MORRISSEAU: We survived your smallpox blankets. We have also survived your residential schools. We have survived your chemical abuses in terms of our community. We have survived the continuing assault upon our people and our efforts to regain and maintain our sovereign position and to protect our land.

We do not want sympathy from anybody. It's been totally misquoted in terms of your media, of looking as sympathetic people who are impoverished and have these beliefs, that no, no -- it -- I understand exactly where you're coming from and I understand your position very clearly.

But it, too, in terms of our, our previous generations of people, of accepting people who fled their lands because of war, famine and pestilence, we understand that. We understand the religious persecution that has gone on in your lands prior to your arrival and why you are here today as a -- blanketing yourselves in the concept of Canada, and we respect that very much.

In fact, we do believe that you people are entitled to peace on this land; not only peace on this land, but also to develop your own societies where in which your societies can contribute and to enhance the earth.

But as I see it now, I see a concept called Canada that has been developing and evolving by only a few people who have directed it in such destructive ways. And the institutions themselves that clutter and blanket themselves in the Canadian concept has done a great injustice to you as a person.

And we continue as people, as a people to look to your white farmers, to your non-Native peoples and seek out some of the contributions that you have given us.

Look at my nice shirt. I think it's a beautiful shirt, and nice pants and nice clothes; just beautiful. But I think this goes beyond more than that, and I think there are significant contributions that you can to, to do find peace on this earth, not a piece of the action.

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much for that answer.

MR. EMBERLEY: Thank you very much, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN: And Microphone No. 2.

MR. BARTLEMAN: Robert Bartleman. I want to thank you for your presentation.

The question I am wanting to put to you is, first, that I speak to you as a European and I am wanting to understand how it is you understand the land.

So first I must say that I think for the most part, we Europeans see the land as something which is external to us, which is dead or at least inert or at least it doesn't have a personal relation to us, but that the land itself is, as I am saying, outside of us. Can you say in your words how you understand the land, so we might learn about that?

MR. MORRISSEAU: We will do a joint answer on this one. I will answer first, then Mr. Abraham will comment after.

The land itself is a part of us. We are part of the water, the land and the air that we breathe, for what we do to the earth affects everything else in life.

And I see this threat in terms of the nuclear waste not only poses a threat on human life, but life otherwise.

And we, ourselves, we view the earth as not only as sacred to our Mother Earth, but also as a people, it means so much to us. It's given us life, it cradles us, it sees us from the sunup to sunrise and so on, eh.

We see the earth as something that is a part of us.

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

MR. G. ABRAHAM: Just prior -- just before I say anything in regards, I want to demonstrate something here. I am not prepared to fight, but I want to show you something here. (Indicating shirt)

MR. BARTLEMAN: Can you tell us what your T-shirt says? None of us can see it really. Could you tell us what it says?

MR. G. ABRAHAM: Shut your eyes, imagination. It says...

MR. MORRISSEAU: It says: No more war, please. It says: Making peace and sharing power, a national gathering of aboriginal peoples and dispute resolutions, Victoria, B.C..

He just got a clean T-shirt, so he's very happy. (Laughter) He wanted to show you that. He's very excited about it. (Laughter)

MR. G. ABRAHAM: There you are. Now, you see what we are asking for? We are asking for peace and we are asking for you to share us, with us what you have reaped from the country.

So we are not stingy of anything. We had always shared with you since you had arrived here in this Turtle Island.

Had we had much time, I would say Indian philosophy is so simple, even a grown-up will understand it. (Laughter)

It's like this: We use nature. Nature that we find out in the wilderness guide us along, and that nature is guided by the stars.

My father -- my grandfather on my mom's side was an astronomer. He directed -- he used to tell me the stories of the stars and nature.

So this is where we get our guidance; not only from the Creator, not only from Mother Earth, but what it holds; therefore, don't be stingy to us for sharing the wealth of the country because we deserve it whether you know it or not, and we don't need to beg for it. You just keep sharing.

So when I say this Indian philosophy is so simple, I can use the rabbit, I can use the coyote, I can use the fox, the wolverine, the wolf, timber wolf. Here is one to fear. Timber wolf is a fearful person and he is the leader of the pack.

There is one yet so dangerous in which we call Windego. Windego, according to the theologians or theologians, they say it's an evil person, an evil deed. It isn't; it is evil and good. And we use the better part, the good.

So what the Windego is like, it's like this. When Windego attempts to stand up, he's so dangerous that he will devour everything, everything that he can reach, everything that he can fill his appetite, and his appetite will never be filled.

I am telling you this and I am warning you this, is because when you look up to the Parliament Hill, there you will see the Windego cutting, cutting, and cutting. And then what he reaps from the country, he's never satisfied, never; always wanting more.

So there you are. This is so simple. I can say it in my language and it's a beautiful way of saying it, but it's very difficult for I to interpret in the weight of English.

MR. BARTLEMAN: Thank you nonetheless for your splendid answer.

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. This will be a final question from Microphone No. 1.

MR. A. ABRAHAM: Hi, there. I just have to ask a simple question. My name is Allan Abraham first.

How do you people, like, take for instance my people. Like, they haven't even heard of nuclear or radioactive materials. How do you let people know about radiation and stuff? How do you give out the, what it is and what meaning is it? Like, how do you let the people know?

THE CHAIRMAN: We have been trying to meet -- as a Panel, we've been trying to meet with some of your people and have discussions with them. And others have perhaps tried to explain these difficult concepts in language which people who have not had that tradition can understand.

It is only the beginning. It is not an accomplished fact by any means, and I think all of us recognize what Mr. Morrisseau has said; that there is wisdom and there is knowledge, and that you're anxious to share it with us, so that we can all make sure we come to a solution which is for the good of all of us who live on this land.

MR. A. ABRAHAM: All right. Meegwetch.

THE CHAIRMAN: Meegwetch.

MR. MORRISSEAU: [Speaking in Ojibwa]

MR. BARTLEMAN: Thank you.

THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, indeed, for your presentation, for the answers to questions.

Ladies and gentlemen, we shall break now for the supper hour. We have one registered and another asking to be registered for right after the supper hour, and our Panel - I reflect to say this - is going to have to be rather severe on time because it's necessary for us to get from here to Thunder Bay in order to meet the people in Thunder Bay tomorrow. So would you please be back here by six-thirty or at the very latest six forty-five, so we can start sharply at six forty-five?

We will have to stop our session at eight o'clock, and I hope we can accommodate the two people and possibly one or two more by then. Thank you.

---Evening recess at 5:15 p.m.

---On resuming at 6:45 p.m.

THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to get this meeting underway. Our two Panel Members will be here momentarily, but we are under a little time pressure because we have to clear out of here and get on our way to Thunder Bay to make sure we are available to the Thunder Bay folk tomorrow, so I am anxious to go ahead.

The first person I have on the list to speak to us this evening - I am not sure whether she's here or not - is Ms. Lavonne Garnett, and if she isn't, I will move right ahead to Mr. Jovanovich who I know is here because I just spoke to him a moment ago. He was here two minutes ago.

MS. KERRY: No. He is here.

THE CHAIRMAN: I know he's around, but he is not in the room. He has to be in the room for him to speak. I saw him just a couple of moments ago. Well, Mr. Bigelow, has he arrived? Has Mr. Bigelow arrived?

MR. BIGELOW: Yes.

THE CHAIRMAN: Good.

If he is, could we do that if you don't mind we will take the best advantage of the time if you would like to come forward and make your presentation. Mr. John Bigelow, assisted by Mr. Herb Dubowits.